@rez I've found beta readers by posting on a hashtag and found some people who were either willing to do an exchange or just read out of interest. #ScribesAndMakers does have a resource page where you might find others who are looking to exchange writing for feedback https://write.as/samhelper/creative-group-interests, or maybe you could find a local group in your area.

I still think there are artists working on these projects but the end result isn't art no matter how beautiful the images or how much skill went into it.

So, the insult is towards the editing process not the creation. I think editing can result in art being stripped away from a thing which was made by masters of their craft.

Most such work has been forgotten, and rightly so; Riefenstahl's remains well-known only because she was one of the very few examples of Nazi artists who had any talent or skill.

And I compare AI art to Nazi art very deliberately; more and more people are making the point that the current trend of AI is very much aligned with fascist goals and ideology. Maybe it's art, but it's still art that we should condemn and shun. 8/8

Given all that, I'm not even going to rule out AI art. There, the "artistic choices" are in what the human chooses as their prompt. What I will say about AI art, though, is that it is *not good art*, and it is also *not art that should be encouraged*. There have been other examples of "art that should not be encouraged" in history: the works of Leni Riefenstahl come immediately to mind, along with any other art that glorifies or promotes Nazism. 7/8

If all of those things are art, I'm not going to point to anything else and say "But that isn't art." I mean, I have trouble seeing how a single straight line, all on its own, would be art... but maybe in some context, it could be? A single circle certainly can be; look at the ensō in Zen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ens%C5%8D 6/8

On the other end of the scale, a "Kilroy was here" graffito is also art. It represents a physical, real-world thing, and does it with whimsy. (One could also look at how that whimsy is juxtaposed with the usual placement of those graffiti — namely, in an active war zone.) 5/8

Another example is Felix Gonzalez-Torres' "Untitled (Portrait of Ross in L.A.)". At first, it just looks like a pile of candy on an art gallery floor. What the hell? But when you find out what's going on with it — particularly the way the prescribed weight of the candy pile matches the weight of his partner, who was dying of AIDS… Suddenly that, combined with the title and the invitation to *take some of the candy and eat it*, becomes profoundly uncomfortable and moving. 4/8

Then there are examples of modern art that people like to hold up as "bullshit", but which provoke strong emotional reactions. Andres Serrano's "Piss Christ" may be disgusting, and probably not a huge amount of effort¹ either — but it was sure as hell *saying something*.

1. I don't want to make it sound like "effort" is what makes it art; even in my previous contrast of a child's scribble with an accomplished artist's easy work, the latter still very much counts as art!) 3/8

...that the child put more of their energy and soul into that scribble than an adult artist who dashes off a piece that's far more technically skilled, but which they didn't spend much time or effort on.) 2/8

#ScribesAndMakers Day 17: People here are open minded and don't want to gatekeep, but where do you draw the line? Aside from AI, which most agree on, what does not count as art?

I'm in the "don't want to gatekeep" camp here — and also, I feel like there's legitimately not much that doesn't qualify, if you really look at it. A child's scribble? Okay, it's not *good* art, but it IS an attempt at art, and a manifestation of an artistic impulse. (Also, it's entirely possible... 1/8

#ScribesAndMakers

Don't get me wrong.
If you use LLMs to generate images intended to be art, or even a book cover, you can't pretend that context and all its implications are not part of what you are making. So, no just generating pretty picture soup is not art, it comes with an obligation to explore this.