toad.social

phily5immature themes and mild language

Operation: Puppet 🇨🇦🏳️‍🌈My brain is kindly supplying me with the <a href="https://mastodon.content.town/tags/Tennocon" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Tennocon</a> experience I would have had if I could have gone and provided not enough sleep. We press on! Watch-along <a href="https://mastodon.content.town/tags/streams" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#streams</a> at 11am and 4:30pm ET today!Ordis, prepare my sugar free Red Bull.

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://skol.social/@rob" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Rob</a> I'm actually not interested in the ATmosphere at all. While I don't try to lock it out, I prefer to stay disconnected from it. Having no character limit worth speaking of (over 16 million), I simply can't imagine paying attention to the needs of those with a 300-character limit. And besides, I don't need a dedicated image-posting server app anyway. Hubzilla could theoretically cover all my needs. The only reason why I use (streams), a descendant of Hubzilla from Hubzilla's own creator, for posting images is because (streams) can make Mastodon blank sensitive images out. Both outclass Instagram, Pixelfed and Flashes in terms of features without even breaking a sweat. As for Loops, I remember that there was quite a bit of a hype when it was announced. I don't know how active it is now, but I haven't seen loops.video way up Fediverse user statistics recently. Then again, Loops is a TikTok clone and mostly only interesting for people who want to escape TikTok. For all other video-uploading purposes, there's PeerTube which is constantly growing. Still, I guess Loops fell to the wayside because dansup simply has too many projects to tend to. AFAIK, it's still waiting for an official stable release. (Then again, so is Lemmy, and it isn't like the Lemmings are flocking to PieFed now that it just had its 1.0 release.) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Loops" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Loops</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PeerTube" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PeerTube</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://skol.social/@rob" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Rob</a> Why are people even forking Mastodon left and right? Is it because they want "Mastodon, but with feature XYZ, but otherwise Mastodon" and not something that's very much not Mastodon? Or is it because they don't know that Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon, Mitra etc. are readily available with exactly the feature(s) they want right now? Not to mention the software family that started with Friendica? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Catodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Catodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://troet.cafe/@andreas_heitmann" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AndyGER :verified_coffee:</a> Wenn du darauf bestehst, daß das ganze Fediverse ohne Ausnahme bis in die hinterletzten Winkel sofort und uneingeschränkt auch für total Technikferne intuitiv nutzbar sein soll, dann wird das Fediverse an sich ganze Features verlieren müssen, weil Nichtnerds sie nicht bedienen können werden. Dann wirst du z. B. den Nutzern von Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ihre nomadische Identität und ihr gesamtes Berechtigungsmanagement wegnehmen müssen, weil das einfach nicht auf dem Niveau von WhatsApp bedienbar sein wird. Dann wird das Fediverse an sich aber auch weniger sicher sein, weil seine sichersten Bereiche ihre gesamte Sicherheit eingebüßt haben. Ich bin schon mehr als doppelt so lange im Fediverse ist wie du und schon länger auf Hubzilla als du im Fediverse. Und ich kann nur sagen: Ich bin strikt dagegen, daß mir auf Hubzilla ganze Features weggenommen werden, nur damit Hubzilla für Technikferne leichter zu bedienen ist. Und ich glaube, ich spreche für alle Hubzilla-Nutzer. Das ist ungefähr so, wie wenn man von Gentoo fordern würde, entweder wie Linux Mint oder gleich wie Windows zu werden oder den Laden komplett dichtzumachen. Gentoo-Nutzer nutzen Gentoo, gerade eben weil es so ist, wie es ist. Manche Dinge im Fediverse sind einfach, wie sie sind, weil sie so vorgesehen und so konzipiert sind, weil das deren Konzept ist. Die sind anders als Mastodon. Die sind sehr anders als Mastodon. Die sind eher für Nerds, die bereit sind, sich mit der Technik auseinanderzusetzen, die diese Technik aber auch brauchen. Nicht alles muß immer für dieselbe Zielgruppe geeignet sein; wenn es das wäre, würde man ganze andere Zielgruppen ausschließen. Das heißt, wenn du etwas suchen solltest, das an sich wie Friendica ist, aber moderner, flinker und weniger fehleranfällig, kannst du dir vielleicht doch mal (streams) angucken, und zwar bei @<a class="" href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6MkwHLKBtw6i7zYkndtpdU7T32yPwE16B5V7mf26ACiZKJz/actor" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pepe (nomád) ⁂ ⚝</a> (alias @<a class="" href="https://hub.hubzilla.hu/channel/pepecyb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝</a>) auf <a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu</a>. Momentan müssen aber Neuregistrierungen wegen einer Botflut angefragt werden. Außerdem ist es noch komplexer als Friendica, du wirst dich auch da erst einrichten müssen, auch weil du standardmäßig nicht öffentlich posten wirst (ist da übrigens ausdrücklich ein Feature), WYSIWYG gibt's auch da nicht (selbst Formatierungsbuttons müssen "installiert" werden), und die Oberfläche sieht auch weder aus wie eine Smartphone-App von 2025 noch wie Facebook 2025. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://troet.cafe/@andreas_heitmann" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AndyGER :verified_coffee:</a> Was sind deine Anforderungen an Friendica? "Mastodon, aber mehr Zeichen und mehr Bilder, aber ansonsten bitteschön Mastodon?" Friendica ist eben konzeptionell, wie es ist. Und das trifft auf den ganzen Rest der Familie ebenso zu: Hubzilla, (streams), Forte. Dazu gehört eben auch vollwertige Blogging-Tauglichkeit, also nicht nur Mikroblogging wie Mastodon, sondern das volle Programm wie WordPress. Und da ist es gang und gäbe, Posts direkt mit Markup-Code zu formatieren. Da kann man noch so auf den Tisch hauen und fordern, daß das gefälligst alles WYSIWYG zu sein hat, daß der ganze Formatierungs-Hokuspokus gefälligst im Hintergrund abzulaufen hat, und daß das gefälligst hartgecodet und nicht abstellbar zu sein hat! Das passiert nicht. Man kann auch noch so sehr fordern, daß Friendica & Co. sehr viel mehr wie Mastodon werden, z. B. daß man Bilder nur als Dateien an Posts anhängen können soll, weil es doch viel zu kompliziert ist, sie mitten in Posts einzubetten. Das wird auch nicht passieren. Okay, dir gefällt das Ganze dann eben konzeptionell nicht. Es gibt aber Leute, für die das so, wie es ist, optimal ist. Wenn du dann aber auf die Idee kommst, Friendica & Co. gänzlich die Existenzberechtigung abzusprechen, dann mußt du dich nicht wundern, wenn du Gegenwind kriegst. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/z428eu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Kristian</a> Echt portable Daten und nomadische Identität gibt's in Fediverse seit 13 Jahren, seit Mike Macgirvin mit Red (später Red Matrix, heute Hubzilla) angefangen hat. Das ist keine Science-Fiction, das ist kein Experimentalfeature, das ist stabil und wird von Produktivkanälen genutzt. Ich schreibe hier von einem Hubzilla-Kanal, der über zwei Hubs geklont ist. Was Mike da gebaut hat, ist zum einen um Größenordnungen besser als das, was Bluesky vorhat. Zum anderen: Bluesky hat bis heute nicht geliefert. Mikes Erfindung ist dagegen seit mehr als einem Jahrzehnt ein bombenstabiler Daily Driver. Seit August 2024 gibt's mit Forte (Fork eines Forks eines Forks dreier Forks eines Forks (eines Forks?) eines Forks eines Forks von Friendica; alles immer noch von Mike) die erste Fediverse-Serveranwendung, die nomadische Identität komplett über ActivityPub abfackelt, die nomadisch ist, aber an Protokollen nur ActivityPub kann. Forte ist inzwischen auch offiziell stabil. Das einzige, woran jetzt noch gearbeitet wird, ist, wie man etwas, was a) von vornherein nur auf ActivityPub (oder einem anderen ursprünglich nichtnomadischen Protokoll) gebaut wurde, b) nie nomadisch war, und c) wo das Konto/der Login auch die Identität ist, so nomadisch bekommt wie Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte. Das macht silverpill, der Entwickler hinter Mitra, und der schreibt auch die ganzen FEPs dazu. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=RedMatrix" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">RedMatrix</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NomadischeIdentit%C3%A4t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NomadischeIdentität</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://thecanadian.social/@mike" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:</a> You really believe that Mastodon 4.5 will outclass <a href="https://joinsharkey.org/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a>, the most powerful Misskey fork ever? In order to achieve that, Mastodon would also have to add, among many other things <ul><li>full HTML post rendering (including embedding an unlimited number of images within posts, as in with text above and below them; something that the *keys can't do)</li><li>text formatting via Misskey-flavoured Markdown or even more expanded Markdown</li><li>emoji reactions</li><li>full awareness of threaded conversations</li><li>full tree-style thread view with real-time updates as a default in all timelines</li><li>unlimited polls</li><li>Mastodon post import including file attachments</li><li>Pleroma/Akkoma post import including file attachments</li><li>Misskey/Sharkey/Calckey/Firefish/Iceshrimp-JS/CherryPick/Catodon/Meisskey/Neko/Tanukey/... post import including file attachments</li><li>Twitter post import including file attachments</li><li>Facebook post import including file attachments</li><li>Instagram post import including file attachments</li></ul> Even then, Mastodon won't be a match for Friendica, much less (streams) and Forte or even Hubzilla. CC: @<a href="https://flipboard.social/@mike" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike McCue</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter RowlandMit Zot ist es ein bißchen kompliziert. Eigentlich heißt Zot jetzt Nomad. Das heißt, Zot11 von 2021, auf dem Roadhouse basierte, war ja zu Zot6 nicht mehr kompatibel und bekam daher einen neuen Namen: Nomad. (streams) basiert auf Nomad, das jetzt eigentlich ungefähr Zot12 sein müßte, aber eben nicht mehr Zot ist. Das Komplizierte ist jetzt: Mike sagt, das ganze Protokoll in allen Versionen heißt jetzt Nomad. Will sagen, auch Hubzilla basiert laut ihm auf Nomad, nur eben einer älteren Version, und höchstens die Protokollbibliotheken in Hubzilla heißen noch Zot6. Mario Vavti sagt aber, das Protokoll, auf dem Hubzilla basiert, heißt immer noch Zot6. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Zot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Zot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Nomad" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Nomad</a>

Sharon Cummings Art (Back Up)walking through the pines a banquet for the senses meditation grove<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/dailyhaikuprompt" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#dailyhaikuprompt</a> - pine groveART <a href="https://fineartamerica.com/featured/the-stream-colorful-nature-landscape-art-sharon-cummings.html" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://fineartamerica.com/featured/the-stream-colorful-nature-landscape-art-sharon-cummings.html</a><a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/art" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#art</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/artwork" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#artwork</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/landscape" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#landscape</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/landscapes" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#landscapes</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/pine" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#pine</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/pines" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#pines</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/pinetrees" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#pinetrees</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/tree" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#tree</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/trees" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#trees</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/colorful" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#colorful</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/mastoart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#mastoart</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/fediart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#fediart</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/handmade" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#handmade</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/handmadeart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#handmadeart</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/handmadeartwork" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#handmadeartwork</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/painting" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#painting</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/paintings" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#paintings</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/collage" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#collage</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/collageart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#collageart</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/woods" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#woods</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/stream" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#stream</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/ocean" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#ocean</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/streams" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#streams</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/mountain" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#mountain</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/mountains" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#mountains</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/scenic" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#scenic</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/buyintoart" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#buyintoart</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SharonCummingsArt" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#SharonCummingsArt</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/forest" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#forest</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/camping" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#camping</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/recreation" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#recreation</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/cabin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#cabin</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/country" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#country</a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/rustic" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#rustic</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://skeptics.social/@pizzawels" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pizzawels</a> <blockquote>Listen = Diffamierungswerkzeug.</blockquote> Aber nur bei denen, die nur Twitter und Mastodon kennen. Auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte haben Listen (Hubzilla: Privacy Groups, (streams) und Forte: Zugriffslisten) ein absolutes Killerfeature, das es auf Mastodon so nicht gibt: Man kann Posts nur an eine oder mehrere bestimmte Listen/Privacy Groups/Zugriffslisten schicken. Das ist wie eine DM an viele Leute auf einmal, aber wenn diese Leute selbst auf Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte sind, können sie in dem Thread, der zu dem Post gehört, auch miteinander diskutieren. Alles, ohne daß irgendjemand, der den Post nicht bekommen hat, irgendwas davon mitkriegt. Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte nutzen Privacy Groups/Zugriffslisten ja auch als Bestandteil ihres Berechtigungssystems. Noch etwas, was auf Mastodon nicht existiert. Man kann etwa den Zugriff auf bestimmte Dateien und ganze Ordner im eingebauten Filespace (noch etwas, was Mastodon nicht hat) nur den Mitgliedern einer oder bestimmten Privacy Group/Zugriffsliste erlauben. Man kann auch z. B. <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/articles/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">nicht-föderierte Artikel</a> nur Mitgliedern bestimmter Privacy Groups/Zugriffslisten zugänglich machen. Wohlgemerkt, das erfordert OpenWebAuth Magic Single Sign-On (etwas, was Mastodon hätte haben können, aber abgelehnt hat), damit man vor Ort identifiziert werden und die entsprechende Berechtigung bekommen kann. Übrigens, zum Thema, <blockquote>dass jeder Beitrag öffentlich ist</blockquote> Zumindest auf Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ist es nur öffentlich, wenn du willst, daß es öffentlich ist. Auf (streams) und Forte ist es komplett mit Standardeinstellungen überhaupt nicht öffentlich. Standardmäßig gehen bei denen nämlich alle Posts raus zu den Mitgliedern der Zugriffsliste "Freunde". Neue Kontakte werden automatisch dieser Zugriffsliste zugeordnet, außer du intervenierst händisch. Wenn du mit (streams) oder Forte so anfängst, wie die allermeisten Leute mit Mastodon angefangen haben, also registrieren und gleich losposten, dann wird das alles nur an deine Kontakte gehen und der Öffentlichkeit, auch der Fediverse-Öffentlichkeit, komplett verborgen bleiben, und zwar sowohl dein Post als auch alle Kommentare. Auf Mastodon entspricht das nämlich nicht "Followers only", sondern weil hier das Berechtigungssystem im Spiel ist, das Mastodon nicht kennt, versteht Mastodon das als DM. Wenn du auf (streams) oder Forte öffentlich posten willst, dann wirst du das auch wirklich wollen müssen, und dann wirst du selbst dafür sorgen müssen, daß es öffentlich ist. Entweder stellst du für jeden Post, der öffentlich sein soll, immer wieder neu händisch ein, daß der an alle Welt rausgeht. Oder du konfigurierst deinen Kanal so um, daß Posts standardmäßig öffentlich sind. So oder so ist es Arbeit, öffentlich zu posten. Wenn man auf Hubzilla die Privacy Groups aktiviert (die sind ein offizielles, optionales Add-on und auf Hubzilla normalerweise standardmäßig nicht aktiviert), verhält es sich genauso, nur daß die Kontakte, die man schon vorher hatte, nicht automatisch nachträglich der Standard-Privacy Group "Friends" zugeordnet werden. Übrigens haben (streams) und Forte auch so etwas wie "Followers only". Aber auch das läuft über das Berechtigungssystem, und auch das versteht Mastodon als DM. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Listen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Listen</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PrivacyGroups" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PrivacyGroups</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Zugriffslisten" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Zugriffslisten</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Privatsph%C3%A4re" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Privatsphäre</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Berechtigungen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Berechtigungen</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Zugriffsberechtigungen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Zugriffsberechtigungen</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> And again, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte are way ahead. They were all made modular right from the start, and they can all be expanded with third-party add-ons and third-party themes (provided someone makes them) by adding third-party git repositories to your server. It helps that they themselves are all installed via git in the first place. For example, it's possible to add entirely new protocols as add-ons. On Hubzilla, protocols that aren't Zot (ActivityPub, diaspora*, RSS/Atom etc.) are add-ons and off by default for new channels. Hubzilla's counterpart to Mastodon's lists, only vastly more powerful, is called "privacy groups" and an official add-on that's off by default again. CalDAV calendar server? Wikis? Webpages? All add-ons. (streams) and Forte have a somewhat different set of add-ons and a different set of add-ons that are on or off by default for new channels. You can bolt all kinds of stuff to these four as third-party add-ons. Want a dating platform in the Fediverse? Just write an add-on for one or several of these four that ties into their (main, public) profiles with their dozens of fields, and you've got one. Better yet: You can upgrade the whole server, the core, the official add-ons, the official themes, third-party add-ons, third-party themes, in one fell swoop. Not first the official stuff and then each third-party repo one by one, but all at once. At least on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, <code>util/udall</code> is the little helper that does it all for you. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=git" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">git</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ThirdParty" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ThirdParty</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AddOns" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AddOns</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PlugIns" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PlugIns</a>

Alison WilderGet there! It's cool!<a href="https://party.radiofreefedi.net/" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank">https://party.radiofreefedi.net/</a><a href="https://io.waxandleather.com/tags/Streams" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#Streams</a> <a href="https://io.waxandleather.com/tags/livestream" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#livestream</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@ShadSterling" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ShadSterling</a> Just because Mastodon doesn't have it, doesn't mean the Fediverse doesn't have it. How familiar are you with Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte? Because everything you've mentioned they've got right now. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@quillmatiq" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Anuj Ahooja</a> Friendica has had full support for formatted long-form articles since its inception 15 years ago. The same goes for all its surviving descendants, created by the same developer: Hubzilla from 2015, (streams) from 2021, Forte from 2024. In addition, Hubzilla can be used to post federating long-form articles (which are automatically sent to Fediverse connections and Atom feed subscribers) and optionally also to post non-federating long-form articles (which aren't sent anywhere). Friendica has also been able to subscribe to both RSS and Atom feeds since its inception. The same goes for Hubzilla. This is not new to the Fediverse at all. See also my Mastodon vs Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte feature comparison tables here: <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/0a75de76-eb27-4149-b708-f20b2f79d392</a>. (By the way: This is a non-federating Hubzilla article.) CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@michaelmarek" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Michael Marek</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@eliasp" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Elias Probst</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongForm" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongForm</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongFormText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongFormText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongFormContent" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongFormContent</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/users/strypey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Strypey</a> <blockquote>You say this like it's a bad thing.</blockquote> Not at all. One advantage is, as you've said, that the backend and the Web frontend can have their own developers, development of both can largely be detached, and they can be upgraded separately from one another. Separate Web frontends can be developed by people who actually know a thing or two about frontend development and UI design. I mean, look at the Web UIs of some all-in-one Fediverse server applications. They're often the digital counterpart of random knobs and switches poked through a piece of cardboard and labelled with a ball pen, just so that these knobs and switches are there. Sometimes they're the equivalent of expecting all kinds of end users to operate DIP switches, but hey, they're still better than soldering and unsoldering wires. Another advantage is that server software for which alternative frontends exist does not have to drag its default frontend around. There are Mastodon servers with alternative frontends, but they still have to have the two official Web UIs installed (the default one and the Tweetdeck-style one) because they're firmly welded to the backend. I guess we all know what a heavyweight Mastodon is, and I'm certain that part of the weight is caused by the built-in Web UIs. In stark contrast, you can set up an Akkoma server with Mangane instead of Akkoma-FE, as in without having to also install Akkoma-FE. By the way, Hubzilla is an interesting case here. Not only is its default UI very configurable, but Hubzilla itself is highly themeable, and third-party themes almost amount to entirely new UIs. At the same time, however, practically all official development efforts went only into the backend for most of its existence. Any Hubzilla UI has to wrestle an immense wealth of features, and not exactly new features were added over time. This, however, caused Hubzilla's UI to gradually turn into a jumbled mess because some of the new UI elements were seemingly added in totally random places. Not only was the UI never cleaned up, but the default theme is perpetually stuck in 2012 (the name "Redbasic" says it all, it was made for Hubzilla when Hubzilla was still named Red), it was derived from an early Friendica theme, and even Friendica wasn't pretty back then. Also, the documentation was completely neglected. So the situation last year was that there was only one working Hubzilla theme left, and that was Redbasic. It was the only theme that was even only upgraded to work with newer Hubzilla versions. There used to be other official themes, but they eventually ended up so outdated that they were removed altogether. @<a href="https://social.wedistribute.org/users/deadsuperhero" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sean Tilley</a>'s third-party themes were last touched seven years ago, that must have been around the time when Hubzilla 3 came out. At the same time, the official documentation was not only highly incomplete, but it was so outdated that parts of it were simply false. It partly referred to features that had been axed many years ago (tech levels) and features that simply were never there (four different mention styles), and parts of it even still spoke of Red. Thus, nobody even knew how to develop new themes for current Hubzilla. That was when the community stepped in. @<a class="" href="https://hub.hubzilla.hu/channel/pepecyb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝</a> sat down and <a href="https://help.hubzilla.hu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">rewrote the entire help</a>. @<a class="" href="https://loves.tech/channel/scott" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Scott M. Stolz</a> not only started working on his <a href="https://neuhub.org/page/documentation/install" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NeuHub themes</a>, but in the same process, he reverse-engineered Hubzilla's theming system to write documentation for theming Hubzilla which had never been written before AFAIK. Around that time, @<a class="" href="https://im.allmendenetz.de/channel/chris" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">?????</a> was dabbling with specialised themes for certain purposes, e.g. one very clean theme for Hubzilla channels used as long-form blogs. Later on, @<a class="" href="https://utsukta.org/channel/sk" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Saiwal</a> joined the fray with his now-popular <a href="https://github.com/saiwal/Utsukta-hub-themes" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Utsukta themes</a>. Granted, Hubzilla still carries Redbasic around, not only as the default for new channels unless the admin chooses another one, but also as a fallback in case a new Hubzilla version doesn't support existing third-party themes anymore. The latter is becoming less likely as the Utsukta themes are being built against Hubzilla's development versions now. Besides, it's in Hubzilla's nature that everything on a hub is updated at the same time, including third-party repositories. In general, the Hubzilla community is no longer that easily satisfied with a UI that "just works", and the devs have taken notice. Hubzilla 10.4, now a release candidate, will spruce up certain core parts of the UI. It will introduce a tree-style thread view as the new default instead of its current chronological view, something that Friendica, (streams) and Forte have had for significantly longer. That is, this is actually a side-effect of the introduction of "lazy loading" conversations to reduce the server workload. Also, upon user request, it will add a button to add images to comments. If (streams) and Forte grow bigger, the same could happen there. They have two official themes to choose from, fairly new Fresh and an older version of Redbasic. However, they don't have a large enough community for all the same things to happen to them that happened to Hubzilla, although Pepe has said he'd rewrite the (streams) and Forte help as well, seeing as Mike had ripped them out entirely with no replacements as they were too outdated at that point. Maybe someone will even write a guide on how to adapt Hubzilla themes to (streams) and Forte. That is, (streams) and Forte are both already the result of several years of UI and UX advancement and improvements and making them fit for a Mastodon-dominated Fediverse (where Hubzilla is still geared towards a Fediverse which it will dominate itself by the mid-to-late 2010s). This is stuff which can't be taken care of in themes because it concerns the UI engine itself, and it's partly tied deeply into the backend. While Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte won't be able to do without their official themes anytime soon, the official themes don't significantly weigh them down. Still, they require some maintenance work to keep up with the backend. <blockquote>Wouldn't Mastodon would be better if it specialised in developing apps, and outsourced the server side to people who know how to do back-end engineering?</blockquote> This makes me wonder which half Mastodon would be willing to outsource. I think they'd rather hold on to the backend and pass all the frontends on. Of course, this would come with the advantage of the official Mastodon mobile app actually becoming somewhat decent rather than remaining the "we need an official app, no matter how" kluge that it is today. CC: @<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> @<a href="https://blah.rako.space/users/rakoo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">rakoo</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ActivityPub" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ActivityPub</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AkkomaFE" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AkkomaFE</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mangane" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mangane</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkomane" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkomane</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/users/strypey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Strypey</a> So Pleroma and Akkoma (which, for some reason, is missing from the list) actually use the ActivityPub C2S API to connect their frontends? Even though Pleroma predates ActivityPub and started out as an alternative GNU social frontend, much like Mastodon? I mean, they're famous for having separate repositories for the server and the Web frontend (same name with "-FE" attached). And they're equally famous for having servers that forgo the official frontend in favour of third-party stuff, most notably Mangane. So if Mangane actually makes use of that API rather than a homebrew *oma client API, it could be used as or, if need be, modified into a sparrings partner for API-testing purposes, not to mention that it's living proof that the API actually works. As it integrates with Pleroma and Akkoma that well, I've got my doubts that it only uses the Mastodon client API. In the cases of (streams) and Forte which are almost the same software save for protocol support, the Web UI is much closer to the server backend, as flexible and modifyable it is. In their cases, the question would be whether they could be used to test just how far feature support in the ActivityPub C2S API can possibly go, maybe even whether it'd be possible to use the ActivityPub C2S API to build an almost fully-featured (streams)/Forte client app (except, of course, Web UI configuration and (streams)' per-channel ActivityPub switch which might cut the whole app off the server). CC: @<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> @<a href="https://blah.rako.space/users/rakoo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">rakoo</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ActivityPub" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ActivityPub</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PleromaFE" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PleromaFE</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AkkomaFE" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AkkomaFE</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mangane" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mangane</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkomane" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkomane</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=API" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">API</a>

Jupiter RowlandMastodon vs Facebook alternatives: Now with Forte! (CW: Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta)

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> I guess the main obstacle in development right now is that there are no clients to pair the server applications with and test them against. Then again, it would take a whole lot of clients. One unified client that covers e.g. Pleroma just as neatly as (streams) is impossible, seeing as how extremely different the two are. CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/users/strypey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Strypey</a> @<a href="https://social.coop/@smallcircles" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">just small circles 🕊</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@benpate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ben Pate 🤘🏻</a> @<a href="https://blah.rako.space/users/rakoo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">rakoo</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ActivityPub" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ActivityPub</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/users/strypey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Strypey</a> Locally writing content to the database of an ActivityPub-based server will inevitably require a local user account on that very server. I mean, we already have <a href="https://magicsignon.org/page/openwebauth/home" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenWebAuth magic sign-on</a> which was invented by @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin ?️</a> for <a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> in 2017, and which also has full implementations in his later server applications <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> and <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> and a client-side implementation on Mike's first project, <a href="https://friendi.ca" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a>. But without an actual account on another server, OpenWebAuth can only authenticate you on that other server as a guest and grant you certain guest permissions. It does not give you all the powers of a local user, at least not without a local account. Also, if you want to actually log in on another server, you will inevitably need local login credentials on that server. Which means that a user account with these login credentials must be created prior to you logging in on that server so that that server knows your login name and your password. Even if you want to use something like OAuth, that server will still require to know your credentials. They will have to be in that server's database before you can successfully log in. A server cannot and will not authenticate you against credentials in a wholly different remote server's database. What you and many other Fediverse users dream of can only be solved in two ways and both only theoretically because, in practice, they are just as impossible or at least very unfeasible. Either if you register an account on one Fediverse server, that account with the exact same credentials is simultaneously created on literally all other Fediverse servers, and on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, you also automatically get a channel along with that account. This also means that each Fediverse server that's installed and spun up for the first time will immediately have to create tens of millions of accounts so that everyone all over the Fediverse automatically has login credentials on that server. I guess it should be clear that this is impossible, also because this requires a) a centralised list of absolutely all Fediverse accounts and identities and b) a centralised list of all Fediverse servers to be hard-coded into every last instance of every last Fediverse server out there. Now, I keep reading stuff like, "But I don't want to use all Fediverse servers!" No, but you want to be able to use any Fediverse server. And then you will have to have an account there. How is the Fediverse supposed to know in advance which servers you will visit this year, the next two years, five years, ten years so that accounts can be automatically created for you exactly there and nowhere else? See? And that's why, if you want to be able to use any server like with a local account, every server must be prepared for it before you arrive. Or drive-by registration: You visit a Fediverse server for the first time, your active login is recognised by that Fediverse server, and an account is created for you on the fly with the exact same login credentials as where you're already logged in. That's its own can of worms. Also, it requires remote authentication. OpenWebAuth. As I've already said: This is technology that's eight years old, and that's being daily-driven right now. But: You will never have this on Mastodon. <a href="https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/25012" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">There actually is a pull request for Mastodon from two years ago that would have implemented client-side OpenWebAuth support.</a> It was never merged. It was silently rejected by the Mastodon developers. The PR was closed in November, 2024. Some people go even further: They don't just want their login credentials wherever they go, they want their whole identity cloned to everywhere. They want all their stuff, all their posts and comments and DMs, all their followers and followed, all their settings, all their filters etc. etc. pp., they want it everywhere all the same. Like a <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">nomadic identity</a> (an invention by Mike from 2011, first implemented in 2012) across up to 30,000 servers. Now, you and many others on Mastodon are probably going to cry out, "YES, YES, PLEASE MAKE THIS REALITY!" But seriously: I myself have actually cloned enough Hubzilla and (streams) channels of mine in my time. None of them even had nearly as much content on them as your Mastodon account. And I can tell from a lot of personal experience that this cannot be done within a blink of an eye. Nomadic identity won't come to Mastodon anyway. Nomadic identity via ActivityPub is probably being daily-driven already. Forte has it, and it relies on it. But Mastodon will never implement it. In particular, Mastodon would rather re-invent the "nomadic identity" wheel in a way that's incompatible with what we already have than implement something made by Mike Macgirvin. Not after all the head-butting that has happened between Mike and Gargron over the years. And OpenWebAuth won't come to Mastodon either. Probably also for the same reason. CC: @<a href="https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Tim Chambers</a> @<a href="https://blah.rako.space/users/rakoo" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">rakoo</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@benpate" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ben Pate 🤘🏻</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenWebAuth" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenWebAuth</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=SingleSignOn" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">SingleSignOn</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NomadicIdentity" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NomadicIdentity</a>

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