Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/users/Karen5Lund" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Karen E. Lund 💙💛</a> Would you lose points for very long alt-texts/image descriptions?<br><br>I tend to describe my original images in extremely high details. Recently (for any definition of "recently" because I haven't posted a single image in over a year due to the huge effort of describing them), my alt-texts tend to reach 1,500 characters or one or a few below that. At least ca. 900 characters are actual image descriptions, sometimes up to ca. 1,400.<br><br>And that's what I consider a "short" description. Because the rest of the alt-text explains where to find the "long" description. It's in the post itself. It includes verbatim transcripts of every last bit of text anywhere within the borders of the image, readable or not. And it includes all explanations which I deem necessary for everyone to understand my images.<br><br>This long description exceeds any known arbitrarily defined character limit anywhere in the Fediverse by <em>magnitudes</em>. I can post such long image descriptions because the only character limit I have here on Hubzilla is the maximum size of the database field for the post text.<br><br>Yes, you've read that right. I describe each one of my original images <em>twice</em>.<br><br>And I must write my image descriptions that long. I don't post real-life photos, nor do I post social media screen shots. I post renderings from extremely obscure 3-D virtual worlds. Maybe one in 200,000 Fediverse users has even only heard of the technology that drives them.<br><br>Thus, I cannot assume <em>anything</em> in my images to be familiar to anyone out there. I can't assume that anyone out there knows what anything in my images looks like, also because my images tend to contain things which simply do not exist in real life in any shape or form.<br><br>At the same time, my impression is that especially Mastodon users expect all information which they don't have to be served on a silver platter immediately with the image description. If you mention something in your image, and somebody doesn't know what it looks like, you're obliged to describe it right away. Expecting anyone to ask you anything about your image after the fact feels like being considered ableist. I mean, you could just as well expect people to ask you to describe the whole image in the first place, right?<br><br>Same goes for explanations. Given the choice between looking stuff up themselves, being given links where they can look stuff up and being explained everything right there, right then, Mastodon users appear to greatly prefer the latter and only consider the latter really accessible.<br><br>And I have to explain a lot. When I tell you where I've taken an image, this alone takes me more characters than some of you use for a whole day's worth of alt-texts. The whole topic is so obscure that I have to explain explanations of explanations.<br><br>My personal record (warning: technically outdated image descriptions): <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">1,500 characters of alt-text, 1,400+ of which are image description; 60,000+ characters of long description for one image</a>. That's about 10,000 words. It took me two full days, morning to evening, to research for and write the image descriptions. It takes a screen reader about three hours to read the long description out loud. But someone somewhere out there might be interested in all this information and displeased if they had to ask me about it to get it.<br><br>As for bilinguality, I should add to my WIP wiki on image descriptions and alt-texts that an alt-text must never include more than one image because screen readers cannot switch between languages mid-alt-text.<br><br>What I do, and I'm not even sure if that's such a good idea, is transcribe text in images that is not in English verbatim, literally letter by letter, and then translate it into English as closely as possible. I'm torn between a verbatim transcript which a screen reader cannot read out correctly and only giving a translation which would not be a verbatim transcript.<br><br>In fact, I've once had a situation in which I had to transcribe a sign in English, (broken) German and French. So I gave<br><ul><li>a 100% verbatim transcript of the English text</li><li>a 100% verbatim transcript of the German text, all mistakes included</li><li>an English translation of the German text that's as close to the original as possible</li><li>a 100% verbatim transcript of the French text</li><li>an English translation of the German text that's as close to the original as possible</li></ul><br>Nowadays, I'd simply avoid posting images with non-English text anywhere in it like the plague.<br><br>CC: @<a href="https://beige.party/@kimlockhartga" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Kim Possible :kimoji_fire:</a> @<a href="https://tech.lgbt/@dotjayne" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Jayne</a><br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
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#imagedescription
1 post · 1 participant · 0 posts today
Kevin Karhan :verified:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mindly.social/@mdanzis" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>mdanzis</span></a></span> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a> is missing.</p><ul><li>Please add an <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> or copy the text into the post.</li></ul><p>thx.</p>
Herzleid<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://aus.social/@decryption" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>decryption</span></a></span> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/Alt4You" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>Alt4You</span></a> <a href="https://wandering.shop/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> </p><p>[Photo of a book page with a section manually highlighted in yellow]</p><p>"I am forty now, and forty years is a lifetime; it is extreme old age. To go on living after forty is unseemly, disgusting, immoral! Who goes on living after forty?"</p>
Aby--not fast, just furious<p>Tiktok where someone is holding a pretend camera over their shoulder like a cameraman on the Maury Povich show. </p><p>When it's announced "you are not the father" the point of view changes to a small white dog who runs around, getting chased (by the fake camera) while it tries to get away, jumping over the furniture in the house. </p><p><a href="https://aus.social/tags/AltText4U" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText4U</span></a> <a href="https://aus.social/tags/Alt4You" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>Alt4You</span></a> <a href="https://aus.social/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> </p><p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://queer.cool/@billzismyname" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>billzismyname</span></a></span></p>
Kevin Karhan :verified:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mindly.social/@mdanzis" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>mdanzis</span></a></span> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a> is missing.</p><p><a href="https://infosec.space/tags/plzfix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>plzfix</span></a> by adding the text as <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a>. </p><p><a href="https://infosec.space/tags/thx" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>thx</span></a> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a></p>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/users/nancywisser" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Icarosity</a> It's similar for me, only that I always put a gigantic effort into describing my own images twice, once not exactly briefly in the alt-text and once with even more details in the post itself. Sometimes I find an interesting motive, but when I start thinking about how to describe it, I don't even render an image because it isn't worth doing so if I can't post it.<br><br>I haven't posted a new image in almost a year. In fact, I've got a series of fairly simple images for which I've started writing the descriptions late last year, and I'm still not done. So much about "it only takes a few seconds".<br><br>Before someone suggests I could use Altbot: I'm not even sure if it'll work with Hubzilla posts. And besides, no AI on this planet is fit for the task of properly, appropriately and <em>accurately</em> describing the kind of images that I post.<br><br>@<a href="https://c.im/@bbamok" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Baranduin</a> And then there's me who has managed to describe one image in a bit over ten thousand words last year. Good thing I have a post character limit of over 16.7 million. And I actually limited myself this time: I did not describe images within my image in detail, in stark contrast to about two years ago when I described a barely visible image in an image in well over 4,000 characters of its own, and that wasn't the only image within that image that I described.<br><br>CC: @<a href="https://beige.party/@LoganFive" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Logan 5 and 999 others</a><br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://beige.party/@LoganFive" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Logan 5 and 999 others</a> First of all: <strong>You must <em>never</em> put line breaks into alt-text. <em>Ever</em>.</strong> (<a href="https://www.tpgi.com/short-note-on-coding-alt-text/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.tpgi.com/short-note-on-coding-alt-text/</a>, <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Draft:Captions#Line_breaks" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Draft:Captions#Line_breaks</a>)<br><br>Besides, that will certainly not be the day that I'll post my first image after more than a year.<br><br>It's tedious enough to properly describe my original images at the necessary level of detail, and one image takes me many hours to describe, sometimes up to two full days, morning to evening. Not joking here. I certainly won't put extra effort into turning at least the 900 characters of "short" description that go into the alt-text into a poem. And I definitely will not also turn the additional 20,000, 40,000, 60,000 characters of long description that go into the post into a poem as well. (And yes, I can post 60,000+ characters in one go, and I have done so in the past. My character limit is 16,777,215.)<br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> <blockquote>It's okay, you don't have to overthink it! Write how you'd describe the image to a friend over the phone.</blockquote><br>This only works with simple real-life photos.<br><br>If your image shows more obscure stuff (like mine), <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/21735784-8443-430a-aa09-e0d9d00a40c2" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">this does not work</a>. (@especially Mastodon users: The link goes to a Fediverse post that you may import into your timeline by copying the URL and searching for it.)<br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Alt Text Hall of Fame<p>Finding it too hard to describe images you're posting online? </p><p>It's okay, you don't have to overthink it! Write how you'd describe the image to a friend over the phone. </p><p>Still having trouble? Tag your post with the "Alt4Me" hashtag, and someone will be happy to help you out!</p><p><a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/SocialMedia" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>SocialMedia</span></a></p>
Nervensäge 💐<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mstdn.social/@GeriAQuin" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>GeriAQuin</span></a></span> </p><p><a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/alternativeText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>alternativeText</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/imageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>imageDescription</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/blind" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>blind</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/inclusion" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>inclusion</span></a><br>Currently I can't see any alt text on this image.<br>There are people here who participate in Mastodon with a screen reader. In order to be able to imagine what has been posted, they need an image description as detailed as possible. You enter that when you upload the image. <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/AltTextMovement" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltTextMovement</span></a></p><p><a href="https://supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how-to-write-good-alt-text" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how</span><span class="invisible">-to-write-good-alt-text</span></a></p>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastoart.social/@elaterite" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bob Tregilus</a> Only that "my best" has actually led to unimaginable extremes.<br><br>They say an image is worth a thousand words. I've once <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/f8ac991d-b64b-4290-be69-28feb51ba2a7" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">described one image</a> in over 10,000 words. <strong>Over 60,000 characters.</strong> The post is so long that, I think, Misskey and its various forks have rejected it, as have Pleroma and Akkoma. It took me two full days, morning to evening, to describe that one image, in-world research included.<br><br>And I actually had to limit myself. For once, I did not give in-depth descriptions of the images within that image, especially not beyond what's actually visible in these images. That's because I've discovered that if I were to do that, I'd have to describe dozens of images in one particular image (in my image) and potentially over a hundred images in these, even though they're so small that they're technically invisible. It would have taken me months to write all that. And it would have been futile anyway. My character limit is over 16 million, but Mastodon rejects posts over 100,000 characters, and in the few places that do accept posts with millions of characters, next to nobody cares about image descriptions.<br><br>I haven't posted a new in-world image in over half a year. I've been working on-and-off on the descriptions for a series of rather simple avatar portraits since last autumn.<br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastoart.social/@elaterite" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bob Tregilus</a> Of course, this means that the more obscure the content of your image is, the more in-depth you will have to go. At worst, there's nothing in your image of which non-sighted people know what it looks like unless you describe it. Simply mentioning that it's there is not sufficient.<br><br>My own original images aren't even photographs, nor are they pieces of art that represent real life. They're renderings from 3-D virtual worlds, very obscure 3-D virtual worlds even. Nobody knows what anything in these world looks like unless they can see it in my images. At the same time, however, chances are that they become so curious about these virtual worlds that they also become curious about everything in the image, not just what matters within the context of the post. That is, sometimes the image itself as a whole is the context. Either way, this means I can't just focus on certain elements in the image in my descriptions. I have to describe everything.<br><br>So I've gotten to a point at which even filling the alt-text character limit forced by Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks (they cut longer alt-texts off at the 1,500-character mark) doesn't cut it. All my original images have two descriptions now. In addition to the one in the alt-text that's very limited, there is another one in the post that's more or less fully detailed, that contains transcripts of all text within the borders of the image, and that also comes with all explanations that I deem necessary. Since I don't have a character limit to worry about (the limit is defined by the database field rather than a hard-coded or configurable number), this description is likely to grow well over a hundred times longer than typical alt-text.<br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Stefan Bohacek<p>I made a similar tool for Mastodon (and a few other platforms), for those interested to give it a try!</p><p><a href="https://data.stefanbohacek.com/projects/fediverse-post-accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">data.stefanbohacek.com/project</span><span class="invisible">s/fediverse-post-accessibility</span></a></p><p><a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a> <a href="https://stefanbohacek.online/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a></p>
Nervensäge 💐<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://pixelfed.social/Geoghooligan" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>Geoghooligan</span></a></span> No alt text<br><a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/alternativeText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>alternativeText</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/imageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>imageDescription</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/blind" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>blind</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/inclusion" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>inclusion</span></a><br>Currently I can't see any alt text on this image.<br>There are people here who participate in Mastodon with a screen reader. In order to be able to imagine what has been posted, they need an image description as detailed as possible. You enter that when you upload the image. <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/AltTextMovement" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltTextMovement</span></a></p><p><a href="https://supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how-to-write-good-alt-text" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how</span><span class="invisible">-to-write-good-alt-text</span></a></p>
Kevin Karhan :verified:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@Flowermob" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>Flowermob</span></a></span> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> and <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/LinkToSource" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>LinkToSource</span></a> is missing. </p><ul><li><a href="https://infosec.space/tags/plzfix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>plzfix</span></a> by adding <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a>.</li></ul><p>PS: <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://med-mastodon.com/@luckytran" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>luckytran</span></a></span> is also on the <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Feeiverse" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>Feeiverse</span></a>...</p>
Kevin Karhan :verified:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@BrianHarrod" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>BrianHarrod</span></a></span> m8 one can see this is <em>"<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AI" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AI</span></a> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/CRAP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>CRAP</span></a>"</em> just because the stairs look wonky af.</p><ul><li>Also there's no <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a>. <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/plzfix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>plzfix</span></a> by adding <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a>. thx.</li></ul>
Kevin Karhan :verified:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://climatejustice.social/@LibertyOverGov" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>LibertyOverGov</span></a></span> <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Philantropy" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>Philantropy</span></a> is bad and antidemocratic.</p><p>Instead, how about he pays as much <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/taxes" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>taxes</span></a> as if his <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/income" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>income</span></a> (<a href="https://infosec.space/tags/Tesla" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>Tesla</span></a> & <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SpaceX" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>SpaceX</span></a> shares valued at market prices at the moment of transfer) was from <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/WageWork" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>WageWork</span></a>?</p><ul><li>The sheer fact <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/CapitalGains" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>CapitalGains</span></a> isn't <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/taxed" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>taxed</span></a> <em>higher</em> than wagework and subject to the same fees and demands like <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/healthcare" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>healthcare</span></a> insurance, <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/SocialSecurity" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>SocialSecurity</span></a>, etc. <em>IS THE INJUSTICE</em>!</li></ul><p>Also <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/ImageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>ImageDescription</span></a> is missing. <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/plzfix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>plzfix</span></a> by adding <a href="https://infosec.space/tags/AltText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltText</span></a>!</p>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://tenforward.social/@djwudi" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Michael Hanscom</a> Out of curiosity, and to be on the safe side and improve my own image descriptions further: What makes alt-text bad in your opinion? Only when it's rubbish that doesn't have anything to do with the image?<br><br>Or is it bad when it isn't accurate enough? When it isn't detailed enough/when certain details that you think should be described are missing? When it's too detailed? When it describes the wrong details?<br><br>Is it bad when elements in the image are described the wrong way? When (for any definition of person) a person's skin colour is mentioned rather their race or vice versa, whichever you think is correct? When a person's gender is mentioned although whoever described the image can't know it with absolute certainty? When a shade of a colour is mentioned by name rather than being described?<br><br>Is it bad when it doesn't explain what you don't understand in such a way that you understand the image without having to look anything up yourself? Or is it bad when it <em>does</em> explain the image because explanations do not belong into the alt-text (I'm being serious, they actually don't)?<br><br>Is it bad when, while getting everything else right, it doesn't contain verbatim transcripts of any and all text in the image? What if there are transcripts in the post text body instead? Is it bad when text is transcribed which you think should not be transcribed, whichever that may be? Is it bad when text in a foreign language is transcribed verbatim in that language and then translated as literally as possible instead of translating it right away?<br><br>Or do you have other criteria that <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">I don't know about and I haven't thought of</a> yet?<br><br>When is alt-text so bad that it justifies both mocking and writing a replacement?<br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
Nervensäge 💐<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://lemmy.world/u/grasshopper_mouse" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>grasshopper_mouse</span></a></span> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/alternativeText" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>alternativeText</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/imageDescription" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>imageDescription</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/blind" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>blind</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/accessibility" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>accessibility</span></a> <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/inclusion" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>inclusion</span></a><br>Currently I can't see any alt text on this image.<br>There are people here who participate in Mastodon with a screen reader. In order to be able to imagine what has been posted, they need an image description as detailed as possible. You enter that when you upload the image. <a href="https://troet.cafe/tags/AltTextMovement" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>AltTextMovement</span></a></p><p><a href="https://supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how-to-write-good-alt-text" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">supercooldesign.co.uk/blog/how</span><span class="invisible">-to-write-good-alt-text</span></a></p>
Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@JustinDerrick" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Justin Derrick</a> The question, however, is: What is "high-quality"? How is it defined?<br><br>Would the bot go by the definition valid for commercial/scientific/technological websites and blogs, i.e. ideally no more than 125 characters, and only a short and concise visual description with no further information?<br><br>Or would the bot go by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's standards, i.e. the longer and more detailed, the better, any and all extra information is welcome in alt-text (because it doesn't fit into the toot), and the limit is 1,500 characters?<br><br>That is, if it were for me, the bot would go look <em>both</em> for alt-texts <em>and</em> for image descriptions in the post text body and judge <em>both</em>. Because I do both at the same time for my original images. An extremely detailed long image description in the post itself (character limit for post and alt-texts combined here: over 16 million) that also comes with all necessary explanations and transcripts of all text in the image, plus an alt-text that's as detailed as 1,500 characters (minus notification about the long description in the post) allow, but with no explanations, and I usually have to leave out text transcripts as well because they're too many.<br><br>You may say the alt-text is superfluous if it's just a much shorter version of the long description. But as long as the Mastodon HOA demands there be an alt-text to every image, no matter what (especially seeing as I always hide my image posts behind summaries/content warnings, so you can't see right of the bat that there's a long image description in the post), I add alt-texts to my original images.<br><br>I'm actually curious about how the bot would judge my descriptions. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it notices that the bits of text in the image are not transcribed in the alt-text. Maybe it'd be irritated because I have headlines in my long image descriptions, because they're so long that they need two levels of headlines. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it goes strictly by WCAG, and a) the alt-texts exceed 200 characters, b) long image descriptions do not belong into the text body by any known official accessibility standards, and c) neither my alt-texts nor my long descriptions are limited to what's supposed to be important within the context of the post.<br><br>Anyway, in the meantime, you can follow the account @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> and the hashtag #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextHallOfFame" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextHallOfFame</a>.<br><br>CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@simon_brooke" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Simon Brooke</a><br><br>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonHOA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">MastodonHOA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>
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